How about ‘getting rid of the caste system’?
Posted by Rewa Smriti on December 26, 2008
In my childhood, I never knew there is something like caste or religion exists in society. Growing up, I saw a lot of things are changing. As we claim that we are educated people, then why we do give so much importance to caste at this stage? Do we really need it?
I guess caste plays a big role in our society. Mostly it played by so called highly educated heartless people. Could you find out when it plays a big role? Especially, when it comes to the point of marriage, we get to know there is something called caste. Anytime and anywhere, even in this modern day the biggest challenge in marriage is either intercaste or the religion. Needless to say it plays an important role in every walk of life: whether it is politics, jobs, religious matter, and even in a holy place at the temple etc.
Could you tell me why is the caste system around?
You people might be reading or knowing a lot about Ramayan, Bhagwad Gita, Vedas, Quran or Bible etc. But, Have you ever thought about what you value in life? I believe that nothing is more important than human values! And I know after reading these holy books, most of the people have interpreted it wrongly and are still interpreting it wrongly. What kind of society do we want? We must realize that change is possible, and thus work to bring about more positive changes for the better society!
Anyway, what’s your opinion on this? I wish to know your opinion plus suggestions on this. Thank you very much.
Turning the wheel... 
lucky said
I hate all types of castism .we hav to encourage intercaste marriages. we shuld give prizes to the girls to marry in other religion like Islam n others so that we can increse harmony between religions. We shuldnt follow the sankars…never furneal of dead bodies its just an old tradition …let the body eated by animals …so that they can survive…..
This world shuld be free from any religion or caste because the affect our freedom …:)
We want freedom ……we dont want “bloody ” religion ….
Lucky said
we shuld announce all dalit as priest of all mandir’s and force brahmin to clean shits of others..cause they did the same ….we shuld marry our brahmin girls to dalit boy ……. Brahmin is the bloody virus of this society…….we hav to clean it !!!
We want freedom ……we dont want “bloody ” religion ….
We hav to be mordern …we shuld allow live-in-relationships …!!!
we have to not follow the foolish indian yoga ,mantra,shastra,ayurved because they wer written by Brahmins … the social structure which was made by these”foolish” brahmins should be avoided ….
If we really want to grow ..we hav to cut cross these boundry.
Rewa Smriti said
@Lucky,
Do you think Brahmin is the only people who can do all priest job in the temple? I don’t think so! Whoever they are it doesn’t matter, if they have knowledge of all mantras or puja vidhies correctly then they have all rights to do it.
rgds.
shashwat said
The way casteism is at present should not even exist. We should throw it out. Casteism as we find it today is now nothing more than a misrepresentation and misinterpretation of a legitimate and progressive Vedic system known as varnashrama. However, we need to know the difference between the two, then get rid of present-day casteism to again utilize the genuine and liberal form of social organization, known as varnashrama.
The casteism that we find today is the materialistic form of designation that has become a way of oppressing the lower social orders of people. Casteism says that if you are born of a Brahmana family, then you are a Brahmana, no matter whether you truly exhibit the genuine characteristics of a Brahmana or not.It is as if when one is born in a doctor’s family, the child is also considered a doctor. However, anyone knows that to become a doctor requires the proper training and perception to see if the child will be a qualified doctor or not.
shashwat said
The original Vedic system called varnashrama was legitimate and virtuous. It was meant for the progressive organization of society. Varnashrama is the Vedic system that divides society into four natural groups depending on individual characteristics and dispositions.
Everyone has certain tendencies by their own natural inclinations and choice. These inclinations are also seen in one’s occupational preferences. These activities are divided into four basic divisions called varnas.
For example, there are those who prefer to offer service to society through physical labor or working for others, or through various forms of expressions like dance and music (called Shudras); those who serve through agriculture, trade, commerce, business, and banking or administrative work (Vaishyas); those who have the talents of leaders, government administration, police or military, and the protection of society (Kshatriyas); and those who are by nature intellectuals, contemplative, and inspired by acquiring spiritual and philosophical knowledge, and motivated to work in this way for the rest of society (the Brahmanas).
In this way, the system of varnashrama came into existence according to the natural tendencies of people, and to direct them so that everyone could work together according to the needs of society.
Its real purpose was that the system of varnashrama was not to label or restrict someone. It was actually part of the means for self-discovery and development. It was to assist a person to find their place in life where he or she would be most comfortable in terms of functionality and occupation. It was to allow the means for everyone to work according to their own nature, which helps bring happiness to the individual and society. Thus, a person could study what was most suited for him or her rather than pursue a type of work that was not really in line with that person’s character, and in which he would soon be dissatisfied. So, it would help guide one to more efficiently complete one’s life and reach fulfillment. In this way, the varnashrama system is based on the natural divisions within society and is not meant to establish forced distinctions or restrictions.
To explain further, in Bhagavad-gita (4.13) Lord Krishna says, “According to the three modes of material nature and the work ascribed to them, the four divisions of human society were created by Me.” Then He continues, “Brahmanas, Kshatriyas, Vaishyas and Shudras are distinguished by their qualities of work in accordance with the modes of nature.” Herein we can see that there is no mention of birth as a determining factor for one’s varna or classification. They are ascertained by their qualities of work. Furthermore, “By following his qualities of work, every man can become perfect. . . By worship of the Lord, who is the source of all beings and who is all-pervading, man can, in the performance of his own duty [or occupation], attain perfection.”
shashwat said
Source:
http://www.stephen-knapp.com/casteism.htm
shashwat said
Mr lucky..”we have to not follow the foolish indian yoga ,mantra,shastra,ayurved because they wer written by Brahmins … the social structure which was made by these”foolish” brahmins should be avoided ….”
You r talking abt, brahmins by janma not by karma! Yoga, mantra, shastra were not written by brahmins by janma, they were brahmins by karma!
Later on to establish their supremacy they adopted this “Brahmin by janma” tradition, even if beta is chor, he is pandit JEE.
shashwat said
After pasting all that, i must accept its not easy(not advisable also) to break this system in one go. Though we must be ready to accept others with open heart. In next 100 yrs or so will see the change.
lucky said
Is there any difference between pandit and brahmin ??
If there plz elobarate….
shashwat said
Read my posts..go thru the link i pasted…u wl get the answer!
Akhilesh said
We should try to avoid thinking as well as talking about caste system. I believe that only because of this system Indian were slave for centuries. No other religion differentiates people of same religion. If anyone think he is superior than others than he/she should prove this by his acts. If we still follow caste system than surely in few years Hindu religion is going to extinct.
Holy~Devil said
Dear Lucky
I find you quite angry and frustrated with the social system.Your comments show immaturity in you. Please give a fair attention to all the aspects.An eye for eye has never been a solution to the root of problems, rather it increases that. Some cultures and Shanskars are really very good.If you read you will find that people from so called free western culture come to India to get spiritual happiness. Be determined and follow your instinct. Brahmins and dalits cutting their head is no solution for betterment.
You can find very good friends and human beings in your so called “tormentors” too. caste system is bad but this will take a long way to vanish from Indian mind set.Proper education and learning is the key to get rid of this diseases.
Cheers
Holy~Devil
Dr.Abhay Kumar said
Hey lucky. . .
You are not frustrated rather you seems to be mentally sick . It need early management.Your statements are not normal,not socially acceptable .May i help you. . . . ?
Kunal said
Casteism was and is still around because we have learned to live with it.. Politicians use it to demand votes, we use it to get seats on premier institutes.. To change the society, we need to change first!
Kunal
Lucky said
Ya Dr……surely u can help me out frm this hell !!!
I am in bangalore ……Plz tell me wen u r available ???
=>Your statements are not normal,not socially acceptable
y not they are socially acceptable ……..see ,nobody hav complained regarding it . In previous disscussion I was protesting intercaste and inter religion marriages and trying to make ppl respect to the religion then most of the person was cricizing me ……..now wen I am supporting it and saying my religion “bloody” ( wat a guy said it in last discussion) then nobody hav pain axcept u.
Nidhi said
Encourage intercaste mariges to get rid of d caste system.i lov to hear ny ones opinion.
nikhil said
“Caste” should be demolished…..” Religion ” we should have…!!!
Reservations based on caste actually widening our society..!!!
ranjeeta said
If a caste identity is signified in temple then people have every reason to fight for their right.
Unless we think of eradicating caste system from society, these problems will be there. I will say reservation is not needed but if you finish it right now.
nikhil said
why we have reservation based on “caste”?? We can have it based on “financial condition”…Reservation for poor or deprived is needed not for particular caste…!!!
ranjeeta said
@Nikhil,
Don’t try to divert the topic!!
Anupam Jha said
@ Lucky, No point holding anger against anyone.Chill it.Brahmin is Brahmin.Shudra is Shudra.No matter how many ill words one uses on his blog!!
This caste system is not only about when it comes to marriage at least for me.Since from the time of 1st semester i have been witnessing this….and still.Marriage is a different game altogether,you might get in love with someone from your own caste but it doesnt mean you can marry her? you might get in love with a punjabi kudi,it doesnt mean you must marry her? There are so many other things involved.Your parents,their expectations from you,so many things…But yeah caste system is revolting nodoubt,when you come across chaps striving to fathom some simple basics in maths…and no matter how much you instill the basics one can remain flummoxed.Change from grassroot level is what i mull necessary.There are thousands of points one can mention but nt much time…..Caste system should nt b anywhere, why only in marriage?? gals are now breaking all the rules more daring even i guess than guys(hope someone is nt burning his/her blood,kaise likh ta hai ye itni saari sisters,net sisters,girls friends hai,hheheh).Rewa Ji, if I have written anything off beat then pardon me!!!
Lucky said
==>No point holding anger against anyone.Chill it.Brahmin is Brahmin.Shudra is Shudra.No matter how many ill words one uses on his blog!!
— This was not written in any type of anger ….. Now my count is 3 ……. n if I include Nikhil then it supposed to be 3.5 … 🙂
==>Your parents,their expectations from you,so many things……
really we are thinking on these things ??? I think u can count the number on fingers…….
nikhil said
My suggestion are very much related to subject….if you think over it..it will obviously lead to eradication of castism from our educational system…!!!
Kindly think before pointing anything…!!!
@ Lucky
Kindly clarify what you actually believe in… then we can discuss…clear your stand which are very much varying..!!! 🙂
Lucky said
@Nikhil
yes sir …..here are they
1. I am not a supporter of castism ( but I will protest if someone says that it is just because of Brahmins )
2. I am not a blind supporter of love marriages .
3. Intercaste marriages is not a solution ( 83 % marriages are still in same caste ) ..only love marriages may be inter caste and i hav no problem with it 🙂
4. Castism , we can demolished it , only wen we are ready to remove reservation based upon caste.
5. we shuld pround our religion …..n I hate who says that it is “bloody”.
ranjeeta said
What was that which happend in Orissa? That’s a nice way of saying “let them all the people kill each other” isn’t it? If this isn’t the result of caste system then what is it?
makrand said
castism is not the only root cause if we go through our democratic system we feel the cause is somewhere else
we need to uplift ourseleves first, yes the problem need to be discussed on large canvas
well edited lines i visit frist time but now will be regular to read
Lucky said
What was that which happend in Orissa?
Do you know wat is happening …….Orissa was the first state to enact a law prohibiting conversion from one religion to another by using force, allurement, through inducements like gifts or gratification and grant of any benefit, either pecuniary or otherwise, or by fraudulent means.law was enacted in 1967, it could not be implemented for the next 22 years due to the absence of Rules to support it. In 1989, the Orissa Freedom of Religion Rules was framed. The first case under the Act was registered in 1993 when a superintendent of police booked 21 pastors in Nowrangpur for breaking the law. The SP was transferred immediately.
Tell me ….is there any need to convert the religion of poor ppls for helping him.
Lets go in history …..1952 ,British parliamant ….. One of senator told ..there are three ways to occupy a country .
1. capture them physical …but it is expensive .
2. capture them finacially ….we are already in hands of FII .
3. capture then religiously …. Chattisgarg,jharkfand,middle rajsthan, keral, Easter tamilnadu , orrisa …… see there cristian population ???
If these NGO really want to work with poot ppl ( may be most od are dalit)then they can do this without changing theie religion ….
ranjeeta said
But, the root cause is caste system. They were not treated equally and barred from even entering the temple. And in Christian all are treated as equals.
Lucky said
==> They were not treated equally and barred from even entering the temple. And in Christian all are treated as equals.
You can say ….but I define them as poor ….they are not ready to convert just because they are not allowed to enter in temples ( its is very less in India and nobody is not ready to leave the taste of creamy reservation just because of it ) ..they are innocense and poor ……..n Christian missionaries are making use of them This is an hidden agenda ….u know the budget for conversion for india …it is $283.1 million (over Rs. 1200 crores)per year …. !!!
We are able to help our ppl of religion and we are doing ……….but we will protest if someone doing these type of things ……im not an extremist but I hav my both eyes open.
Lucky said
==> Christian all are treated as equals
Hindu Brahmins in Goa now became Christian “Bamonn’s”
Kshatriya became Christian noblemen called “Chardos”.
Vaishya’s who converted to Christianity became “Gauddo’s”,
Shudras became “Sudir’s”.
Syrian Christians derive status within the caste system from the tradition that they are converted Namboodiris,
Dalits or “Untouchables” who converted to Christianity became “Maharas” and “Chamars”
There are separate seats, separate communion cups, burial grounds, and churches for members of the lower castes, especially in the Roman Catholic Church more than 70% of Catholics are Dalits, but the higher caste Catholics (30% by estimates) control 90% of the Catholic churches administrative jobs .Out of the 156 catholic bishops, only 6 are from lower castes. Dalit boys are often not allowed to be altar boys or lectors.
ye to rahi India ki bat …….. abhi to pura world bachca hai ….fursat mein batata hu 🙂
Nidhi said
i m in favor of INTERCASTE MARRIAGE.i thnk if d mariage taks plce btwn difrnt cast peple,it wil hlp to remove d cast system frm society.
nikhil said
@ Lucky
Its absolutely true that christens are converting Hindus arguing that they are not treated equally in Hindu society.
However these people are converting for monetory benefits…!!!
We should uplift them otherwise majority of hindu population will turn in other religion. Demolishing castism and uplifting poor clan financially will certainly stop conversion.
@ nidhi
Intercaste marriage wont help much as you girls will enter into Husbands caste…and rest remains the same,,,!!! 🙂
Nidhi said
‘Intercaste marriage wont help much as you girls will enter into Husbands caste…and rest remains the same,,,!!!’
@nikhil
who tld u?my mom nd dad belong to dffrnt castes nd v dnt fnd nything wrng nd dffrnt in it.nd its hlped me a lot to thnk broadly.
ranjeeta said
“You can say ….but I define them as poor”
you can define things as per your convenience or ability. I don’t have time to help you in that,but you have to accept this truth.
Going with Nidhi’s view, I am also in favour of inter-caste marriage. It will help us to reduce the blockage in our society.
shashwat said
Some one was telling christianity treats everyone equally, no jaat paat….here are the facts….
You know the Latin Catholic will not enter to Syrian catholic church,
these two will not enter to Marthoma church,
these three will not enter to Penthacost church,
these four will not enter to Salvation army church,
these five will not enter to 7th day Adventist church,
these six will not enter to Orthodox church,
these seven will not enter to Jacobite church ………… ……….
Like this there are 146 castes in Kerala alone for Christianity,
each will never share their churches for Christians !
Among Muslims, Shia and Sunni kill each other in all the Muslim countries.
The religious riot in Muslim countries is always between these two.
The Shia will not go to Sunni mosque,
these two will not go to Ahamadiya mosque,
these three will not go to Sufi mosque.
My intention is not to hurt anyone. Its very easy to abuse hinduism for castes n all. But the truth is its coz of human nature not by religion. Its better to point finger on ourselves than abusing religion on every fringe subject.
shashwat said
I dont think we should drag Mr. Tulsidas here. It will only show him in poor light. His intention was never to say what most understood. As we know in Kavita, Geet, u don hv to go by word by word meaning, u hv to understand “bhaav”.
ranjeeta said
I am not saying our religion is bad. My only point is in our society they were not treated equally and still are not being treated eqaully in society.
shashwat said
Ranjeeta Ji,
Yeah you are right, thats what all of us are saying. I just wan to convey one point, castism and religion don hv any relation at all.
Situation is pretty complex rather in India. Plz go thru the link wht i pasted above…
http://www.stephen-knapp.com/casteism.htm
Janm ke adhaar par main brahmin, concept is wrong. It should be based on Karma.
And please don think that shudra is neech than Brahmin. Not at all. They are jus doin 2 diff things, thats it. Like if i will quote knapp’s example,, singers are shudra, politicians are brahmins, it doesnt say that Lata Mangeshkar (Shudra) is inferior to Manmohan Singh (Brahmin).
Its jus that they are doing 2 diff things, both are imp to society and country.
Start recognising urself as one of 4. And then think what you want from life.
Lucky said
The American attack to the Muslim land of Iraq is fully supported
by all the Muslim countries surrounding Iraq One Allah, One Quran, One Nebi….! Great unity !
For Hindus 1280 books, 10,000 commentaries, more than one lakh
sub commentaries for these foundation books, 330 million gods,
variety of aacharas, thousands of Rishies, hundreds of languages,
…still everyone goes to the SAME TEMPLE…whether unity is for Hindus orin others and never quarreled each other for the last ten thousand years in the name of religion…..
and we are blamming that we are bitter than Christians ….n im hearing it frm a hindu !!!
shashwat said
@ Lucky Ji…
“we are blamming that we are bitter than Christians ….n im hearing it frm a hindu !!!”
I think thats ignorance brother….most of us are not aware what is Hinduism. Its not just religion. Its a way of life.
You are right, instead of abusing any religion, start reforming yourself.
ranjeeta said
I treat all dharamas equally. This is Dharma practice who devided the karmas. I believe it’s traditionally divided by so called brahmin. and still are following age old systems. Why?
Gagandeep said
Brahmin is Brahmin.Shudra is Shudra.No matter how many ill words one uses on his blog!!
kitne sare chuhe khakar pandit sab chale haj karne.hahaha 😛
Gagandeep said
Doston, ab koi brahman nahi hai. Sabhi shudra ho chuke hain. Fir kahe ka brahmingiri?
shashwat said
Ok, what about inter-reliigion marriages? R u guys ok with that?
shashwat said
Ok, what about inter-reliigion marriages? Would u like to promote it?
shashwat said
@ Ranjita JI
“I treat all dharamas equally. This is Dharma practice who devided the karmas. I believe it’s traditionally divided by so called brahmin. and still are following age old systems. Why?”
Everyone has certain tendencies by their own natural inclinations and choice. These inclinations are also seen in one’s occupational preferences. These activities are divided into four basic divisions called varnas.
Later on Janma based system started. It wasnt started by Brahmins only! [First i will clear that i am not a brahmin (Both by janma and karma!)] It was supported by everyone, one can say tht it was STARTED by brhamins, but everyone started adopting it. So other castes are also culprits.
Its very easy for us to raise fingers on Brahmins but lets think logically.
Brahmins told us to do something, n we did! Brahmins told us to not to enter in Mandirs n we followed!! Why????
I do not accept it as truth. More logical reason wud be to accept that EVERYONE wanted that.
Today all of us will have to try to eliminate this caste system. By blaming brahmins we are making things worse only, we are not reaching at any conlusion, we are creating confusion only.
shashwat said
I agree with u lucky BHAI….
I m not getting promotion in office so i will blame my boss! Thats the easiest excuse i have. N why not we all love to show off, we all want to show tht we r the most deserving one!
Quite possible ki boss is like that only, but whats ur Karma?? Some one quoted Geeta, do ur own work! Don keep crying that oh i m deprived of all facilities!!
Lucky said
==> I treat all dharamas equally.
I was trying to say that we hav to understand our religion first.then talk abt others ……..its very hard to understand the religion watever it may be ……
shashwat said
Lucky bhai, whats ur view on inter-religion marriages?
shashwat said
All girls please put your comment on inter-reliegion marriage…
nikhil said
Why to bring all these complex things in life???
Let it be as it is…only remove those bitter part…remove castism from education and recruitments….rest let it be….
Marriages let them happen as they were happening…!!!
Let people worship whoever want to….why to reform???
If we think logically…everything is easy…
Who has time to think who is who???
Have you ever seen who cooks ur food in hotels?
Who drives ur bus? train?
Who built our temples?
Who stiches our cloths??
Life is too short…why to waste it??
Lets live like a human being…!!!!
nikhil said
@ nidhi
Now which caste You belong to? Dads Or Moms??? 🙂
If you see, we really cant negate castism from our life..!!!!
Rewa Smriti said
@Nikhil,
Why only from education? What if I suggest remove castism from every inch of place! Will you come forward to work on this? I am ready, will you? I do not want to argue, let’s come and do something positive.
rgds.
Rewa Smriti said
@Lucky,
Chalo mana to sahi ki some discrimination does exist in our society or wo galat hai. You don’t have capability to think upon it and stand against wrong thing, isliye aap un galat cheezon per parda dalkar use defend kar rahe ho! That’s enough and you have proved it. I simply do not want to have debate with you or anybody. Anyway, I don’t support the caste system!
rgds
Rewa Smriti said
@Nikhil,
Is it required? I don’t think so. If you ask me, I even don’t like any caste system, and never ask anyone that “you belong to which caste”!
rgds.
nikhil said
I am really sorry if I have hurt anybody’s feelings….my point was that we really cant eradicate caste from our life….though we can have intercaste,interreligion marriages, somewhere we get stamped with cste…!!!
Why we cant have only nationality??
Rewa,…lets do something…! I am always ready…!!!
ranjeeta said
{though we can have intercaste,interreligion marriages, somewhere we get stamped with cste…!!!}
Nikhil
I will say, in order to be flexible accept the change! The concept of Caste will not go in a day but it can be removed slowly.
Shahrukh Khan said
RAMRAM Bhaiyon aur Behno…
Here I am trying to provide my answers to Rewa’ questions mentioned in blog post.
Q.1 As we claim that we are educated people, then why we do give so much importance to caste at this stage?
Answer: We simply claim but indeed we are not educated.
Q.2 Do we really need it (CASTE)?
Answer: Yes..some of us do need it but some don’t.
Q.3 Could you find out when it plays a big role?
Answer: If person belongs to upper caste then it could play big role when he/she has to deal with person with lower caste and If person belongs to lower caste- then it could play big role everwhere in his/her life.
Except hindu CASTE-Brahmin- each hindu caste is lower than some other hindu caste. Lowest hindu caste I dont know.
Q.4 Could you tell me why is the caste system around?
Answer: This caste system is around…because we never
wanted and tried to get rid off it. Hume pyaas lagane par hi Kunwa khudane ki aadat hai.
Q. 5 What kind of society do we want?
Answer: We want kind of society…where shits like fake religious traditions/rules and caste has no place …where Humanity and Indian citizenship should be our religion…no caste. This seems very difficult.
Q. 6 What’s your opinion/suggestions on this (Bringing Change in Society) ?
Answer: No specific type of marriges..changing reservation policies..blaiming Brahmins…is going to help remove caste..from our society. It should be removed from our minds first. Changing ourself is going to bring the change in society and nation.
Don’t wait for another “Ambedkar”…there won’t be any.
Remember ..it’s not only education or knowledge but the wisdom that really can difference.
Nidhi said
“Now which caste You belong to? Dads Or Moms???
If you see, we really cant negate castism from our life..!!!!
we can have intercaste,interreligion marriages, somewhere we get stamped with cste…!!!”
@nikhil
caste system is d worst thng in our society so i(my family) dnt follow it. fr me,i judge peple only on d basis of thir behaviour nd mentality.
v cn embrace it nd make it possible instead of rigid.lets 1st b more optimistic nd encorage to remov it frm our mind.
“Every revolution has to begin with the individual.”
in btwn a v nice cmnt frm Shahrukh Khan.
ranjeeta said
Shahrukh Khan,
I raise my hat to you. I agree with you whole heartedly. A spoon full of sugar, makes the medicine goes down!
It would be great, if we learn something from our great people like Narayana Murthy, Kalpana Chawla, Kajol, SRK. Inter-caste marriages could be a way to eradicate caste system. It’s worth repeating again.
shashwat said
We are supporting inter caste marriages, this way we want to get rid of caste system. If we will go for inter-religion marriages, dont you think we will treat our religion the same way? I am just curious to know.
Kiran said
Hi Shashwat
Just a month back one of mine colleague got married. She is hindu brahmin and she got married with a christian guy. This is love cum arranged marriage. There are many such cases you may see in our society.
Kiran said
I want to make it clear that I don’t have any intention of writing badly/glorifying any caste/religion or God. What I want to convey is that society is changing now. For that matter, take most of the truly successful people, they simply don’t follow any caste system.
nikhil said
Why we should remove castes completely? we can remove the unwanted part of it…They are our identity…even animals have species…but they behave naturally…cant we learn that? Removing castes completely is impossible…and nonsense!!!!
Shahrukh Khan said
My Brother…..Nikhil !
“Removing castes completely is impossible…and nonsense!!!!”…If there is God then he/she should help you.
1. Animal “Species/generes” are by nature. No reliion-no GOD..concept.
2. Human are also animals (mammals- specifically)..so humans do have species…it is very will written history and biology books.
3. Concept of “Caste” is created and promoted by some group of humans(like Manus) in the past…caste is not by nature – it is not natural concept unlike species or genres.
4. There is not even a single benefit of caste and sub caste..to mention…but lots of evils.
I hope this helps you get answer for your question-“Why we should remove castes completely?”….and I add again “not from society but from our mind first”.
Akanksha said
नया साल…नया जोश…नई सोच…नई उमंग…नए सपने…आइये इसी सदभावना से नए साल का स्वागत करें !! नव वर्ष-२००९ की ढेरों मुबारकवाद !!!…नव-वर्ष पर मेरे ब्लॉग “शब्द-शिखर” पर आपका स्वागत है !!!!
nikhil said
Dear Shahrukh,
Learn to understand what is said…dont always follow the words literally..!!!
I said like animal’s identity is their specie,humans are identified by their cast/religion/nationality…!!!
Manu is not a group of people…for your kind information…!!!
What you are today is because of your cste/religion..the way you think…behave….has originated from wat your csate/religion is following for years….!!!
Changing mindset is not as easy as changing cloths..!!!
So why should we remove it completely?? it wont help…!!!
nikhil said
Animal “Species/generes” are by nature. No reliion-no GOD..concept.
—- Not by nature…we name them…we created it..the same way we created castes/religion.
Human are also animals (mammals- specifically)..so humans do have species…it is very will written history and biology books.
—– We are mammals..right..!! Human cant have species…we have castes/religion/race etc…!!!
Concept of “Caste” is created and promoted by some group of humans(like Manus) in the past…caste is not by nature – it is not natural concept unlike species or genres.
—— Manus part is bit controvercial…so I wont comment…if at all created by him…I wonder how only one man can influence so many people to follow it??? Not a single concept is natural my friend..its all created by humans…!!
There is not even a single benefit of caste and sub caste..to mention…but lots of evils.
—-Everything is not here for benefits…!!! Even your existance has very little benifit and lot of evils..so that doesnt mean that we should kill you…!!! or demolish you completely…!!!
Hope it would clarify your misconceptions…it happens when you read lot of history nd science books..!!
ranjeeta said
There are two kind of species in India:
-one, the arrogant, haughty, and manipulator of castism.(I dont want to associate myself with this variety as followed by this group.)
-The other, the humble beings living on equal terms with others in society loving all. (This group consists of true Hindus. A true Hindu is one who doesn’t believe on castism.)
What I am today I therefore own my words and thoughts.
A long thesis can be written on the subject. In case you call yourself a brahamin better you can go, read and question yourself- whether you are not insulting the word brahamin?
ranjeeta said
A shudra who is well versed in vedas, who is vegetarian(satisfying the expectations of vegetarian hindus) is eligible to become a priest of a temple.
It is a well proven fact that Caste system is a disease to be cured and not something to take pride of.
nikhil said
Caste system is not a disease..How you can say it is proven fact, I dont know….why shouldnt we take pride of?? there are certainly lot of good things I am proud of my caste..and we should preserve that…at the same time I condemn all ill things….!!
It is insane to eradicate castes completely….with abolishments we will loose all good things as well…!!
There is no real Equality in life…!!! You go anywhere…!!!
If you say shudra can be priest..then why you need him to be vegeterian?? let him be non vegeterian and priest too…!!! there you have problems…….you want shudra to be priest but he has to behave like brahmin ( Vegeterian,knowledge of vedas etc )…I cant understand this..!!!!
ranjeeta said
The real meritorious is rejected on the grounds of his brth as a low born shudra. This is caste system which has to be removed from the mind as said by Shahrukh khan.
I only said, a long thesis can be written on the subject. In case you call yourself a brahamin better you can go, read and question yourself- whether you are not insulting the word brahamin?
nikhil said
Changing mind set is not as easy as changing Cloths, my dear friend…!!!
If it is very easy then this world would have been far better place….what our SRK is saying looks good on paper…but hold no ground…!!!
ranjeeta said
‘Changing mind set is not as easy as changing Cloths, my dear friend…!!!’
It is not as hard as you think always..!!
Rewa Smriti said
Read the quoted comment. There are so many nonsense comments written by Mr. Sandesh urf Lucky which I have saved in spam.
@Nikhil,
Is this what you want to say “A SHUDRA HAS TO BEHAVE LIKE BRAHMIN!” It is time to do a honest reality check!
rgds
ranjeeta said
It is not written on your forehead that you are from which caste.
ranjeeta said
So called brahman Mr. Lucky, you have to learn how to behave.
anurag ranjan singh said
अगर आप मानते हैं कि भगवान हैं, और उसी ने हमसब को बनाया है तो यह भी सही ही है सभी जोड़ी में बने हैं| सबका कोई न कोई हमसफ़र है| लेकिन ये बात मेरे पल्ले आज तक नहीं पड़ी की जाति भगवान ने बनाया है या हमने| लेकिन हम सबका अंतर्मन ये भली-भातीं जनता है कि जाति इंसानों कि बनाई गयी अवधारणा है| आप गौर करें तो पता चलेगा कि जो जातिगत विवाह की अवधारणा से बहुत कम ऐसे दम्पति हैं जो सुखी हैं लेकिन प्रेम (आत्मलिंगन) के आधार पर रची-बसी विवाह की अवधारणा ज्यादातर सकारात्मक है| ऐसे में जातिगत विवाह की अवधारणा प्रकृति के विरोध में है और जीवन का पुराग्रह है जो आत्मानुसंधान से हमारी समझ को विलग करता है| मैं जातिगत विवाह का पुजोर विरोध करता हूं| रेवा जी आपने इस अपरिपक्व समाज की दिशाहीनता के ऊपर जो कटाक्ष किया है इस से रुढीवादिओं की आत्मा जागे यही मेरी कामना है| आप समाज के दिशा-दर्शन में अकेले नहीं हैं, मुड़कर मत देखियेगा| आपकी आत्मा जानती है पूरी भीड़ है जो आपको अपना मानती है| और मैं तो मरने के बाद भी हूँ साथ-साथ|
Dr.Abhay Kumar said
Dear Lucky. . .
How is your health ?I have earlier informed you to be cool.Dont be so aggressive. . . . . Anyway get well soon. . . Whenever i will Banglore will surely meet. First i will pray to God for your good mental health in this new year. . . .
With love ,
Dr.Abhay
anurag ranjan singh said
लकी जी नमस्कार!
सचमुच आज समझ मैं आया कि शिक्षा के बावजूद भी लोग कितने नासमझ होते हैं| लकी तुमने यह साबित कर दिया| चलो कम से कम तुम्हारी और तुम्हारे परवरिश करने वालों की पहचान तो हुई|
shashwat said
Waah re aajkal ke brahman….acha kiya aapne jo id yaha paste kiya,,sabko sachhai pata chale….motivation bhi milega…casteism door karne me….
shashwat said
“honest reality check!”
Seriously…kaise log hai…jara si thes lagi nahi ki brahmanatva choor choor ho jata hai….
nikhil said
@Rewa
When I said Shudra should behave like brahmin? Must be misunderstanding…….!!!!!
As far as my knowledge goes I never said this…!!!
nikhil said
@ shashwat, @ Ranjeeta
Youe comments
So called brahman Mr. Lucky, you have to learn how to behave.
Waah re aajkal ke brahman….
See how castism deeply rooted in our mind…insted of blaiming Lucky,you labling , blaiming him with his caste…!!!
If people would have said same thing to the lower caste person..reactions would have been different…it becomes crime in India if you do so…!!!
Still we label persons with castes…& previous posts we talk of eradication of castism….!!
Ranjeeta…now tell me is it really possible to change our mindset???
Rewa Smriti said
@Nikhil, could you please make me to understand your above statement? I may be mistaken. What do you exactly want to say?
rgds.
shashwat said
“See how castism deeply rooted in our mind…insted of blaiming Lucky,you labling , blaiming him with his caste…!!!”
Sorry Mr. Nikhil, u misunderstood….
Mr lucky was continuously telling tht he is a brahmin, he knows abt dharma, Geeta n all.
After looking at his comments i said tht what kind of Brahmin he is…….
Yes i agree that Casteism is deeply rooted, n why not for last few hundreds of years it is in existence. It will take some time.
I always say there is no any magic to cure this problem. This generation will hv to cope up wth this disease. Next generation will see the change.
And one more thing, casteism is deeply rooted, is no excuse to support it.
Corruption is deeply rooted in our society, doesnt mean we r goin to accept it.
nikhil said
@ rewa
If you read full coment wrt ranjeeta’s
A shudra who is well versed in vedas, who is vegetarian(satisfying the expectations of vegetarian hindus) is eligible to become a priest of a temple.
I said :
If you say shudra can be priest..then why you need him to be vegeterian?? let him be non vegeterian and priest too…!!! there you have problems…….you want shudra to be priest but he has to behave like brahmin ( Vegeterian,knowledge of vedas etc )…I cant understand this..!!!!
So, If you want shudra to priest why he has to be non vegeterian? he can be priest being a non vegeterian..!!!
My point was you are making shudras to behave like brahmin if he wants to be a priest ( non vege, knowledge of vedas etc ) isnt it strange…..On one hand u want shudra to be priest but want to behave like brahmins..!!!
That was my point…i never said shudra should behave like brahmins…Infact I asked same thing to ranjeeta but not got answer…!!!
shashwat said
“is it really possible to change our mindset???”
Yes it is. Compare 2008 with 1998!!!
Problem is we want quick fix solution for everything, we believe in magic.
But no such thing exist, we all will hv to fight for it. Sati pratha aise hi hati thi, casteism is no different.
“Hamen samaaj ke andar rah kar hi samaaj ki safaai karni hai, u don hv to be a Saint.”
Few years back even i was against inter-caste marriage, but now i support it. My thought wasnt changed overnight! Its a process.
Wait for few decades please.
nikhil said
@ shashwat
Agree…!!!
However he was flaunting his caste which may be insane,,,but we are sensible..aint we?
Still we labeled him with his caste…we would have said him anything..but fact is that we are saying all things of eradication of castes but we still are not ready to let it go.!!!!
nikhil said
@ shashwat
I would love to wait for decades…
My question is why we should we eradicate castes completely? the way sati went away…bad things will go…it doesnt mean we should give up our castes..there are good things..preserve it…ill things demolish it…!!!
Rewa Smriti said
@Nikhil,
There are some words that have only one meaning. On the other hand, many words usually have more than one meaning.
If you have not put any question mark then how could one understand that you have asked something? I don’t see any question mark there in your statement. So, I took it as your statement!
rgds.
nikhil said
🙂 was in hurry…will tek care..noted..!!!
Regds
shashwat said
Nikhil bhai.
“My question is why we should we eradicate castes completely? there are good things..preserve it…ill things demolish it…!!!”
Will you please list down few good things about caste…….
shashwat said
“However he was flaunting his caste which may be insane,,,but we are sensible..aint we?
Still we labeled him with his caste…we would have said him anything..but fact is that we are saying all things of eradication of castes but we still are not ready to let it go.!!!!”
Anyone who is flaunting his caste, must be reminded to take a look at his/her deeds. Thats wht i did.
“we still are not ready to let it go.” I dont think so….we r ready….as i said earlier…its not a magic tht i wil forget tht to which caste i belong.
Shahrukh Khan said
Thanks Nikhil for
1. following words literaly. (Very few people do that)
2. realizing that we should stick to our nationality atleast. (Inshaa Allah..You will hopefully also take CAST’E’ AWAY )
3. accepting that any thing (like CASTE and CASTEISM) that does not possess any benefit but only evils..should be removed.
4. proving that Manu is person and Manus-a group of persons like Manu.
Folks,
I Do agree but upto a certain extent with Nikhil..that in our Indian society who ever is what ever today..is because of their caste/religion. I dont think this is this matter of proud for us. We people should atlest ‘try’ to earn Respect and Honour (like-Sant DNYANESHWAR, GANDHI, AMBEDKAR)based on our actions rather than our CASTE/RELIGION.
I can’t and don’t take pride of being Brahmin, because great SANT DNYANESHWAR was also a Brahmin…..same way I can’t be ashamed of being Brahmin inspite of the fact that SANT DNYANESHWAR and his family was outcasted/given death punishment (to parents only) /asked to observe celibacy…by many Brahmins in his village (Apegaon and Alandi)…because his father broke so called CASTE “rule”.
With this ‘ONE’ small example I hope I tried well to prove how caste has lots of evils but no benefits at all. I can call it a trailor atleast…
Please note -this example is about so called UPPER (or if I may say UPPEST..yes TOP) caste…there are many lower castes and even more lower examples for those.
MAIN NIKHIL VYAKTI NAHI…KINTU SATYA YEH BHI HAI KI..PARIVARTAN HI SHASHWAT HAI.
SO..LET US BELIEVE IN CHANGE.
“May Peace be upon All- Wishing you a very happy new year”
-KING-SHAH RUKH KHAN.
mehek said
naya saal bahut mubarak ho rews,kyun na hum koshish karein ye jaat paat sab mitane ki sab milkar.aur ek insaaniyat ka dhaam kada ho duniya mein.amen.
kk yadav said
New Day !
New Morning !
New hopes !
New plans !
New efforts !
New success &
New feelings….Wishing u all very-very Happy New Year-2009 !!
sandhya gupta said
Nav varsh ki dher sari shubkamnayen.
nikhil said
@ SRK
How did you feel when Abhinav bindra won gold? When Kalpana went in space? When you read indian history? or all glorious stories? Tell me how do you feel and why…!! pls
nikhil said
MAIN NIKHIL VYAKTI NAHI…KINTU SATYA YEH BHI HAI KI..PARIVARTAN HI SHASHWAT HAI.
isme mere naam ka prayojan kis hetu se hai ye kripa karke batayenge?? m not able to understand 🙂
Rewa Smriti said
@Nikhil,
May be but if your own mindset is not acceptable to you what will you do? You will try to come out of it by all your efforts. What people generally err is that when one mindset is not accetable they jump to the other and keep on doing this restlessly, and this is more difficults life but the easier way out is take a smooth transition to your own natural self. we always have chance to improve and every improvement involves change. If we try we can change our mind set and it will change society!
rgds.
nikhil said
Shashwat….!!
Anyone who is flaunting his caste, must be reminded to take a look at his/her deeds. Thats wht i did.
You not only reminded him of his deeds but predominently reminded him of his caste…!!!
You could have condemned his deeds without mentioning his caste..!!!
However fact is that we write lot of things on paper but we are still so rigid…!!! we can not and should not remove castism completely but should remove bitter part of it…!!!
Shashwat, its very sad that u can not see any good in castes…keep ur eys open…right from ur nomenclature to ur funeral,everything is ruled by ur caste or religion..its up to you to decide which ones are good and which ones are bad..!!!
Tell me one benefit of Kashmir to india…..and its evils we are sufferings for decades…!!
That doesnt mean we should give up kashmir…some things are there with which our pride and centiments are associated..we cant seperate ffrom them..!!!
Rewa Smriti said
@Nikhil,
Yes! There is no other possibility, it has to change. Because, differentiation is never acceptable to any human being. Is it acceptable to you? If not then you have already discarded it. Whenever you are given a chance to act, you will not include it in your program. You may also find out whether differentiation on the basis of caste is naturally acceptable to anybody around you. If not, they have also discarded it already. You may conduct a similar exploration with all and see what you get as the response. All we need to do is, just to know our natural acceptance and we have within ourself the solution to all our problems. So, I would like to say that it is biggest possible to change our mindset!
Happy new year to all my readers and commentators!
rgds.
nikhil said
@ rewa
its true..we can change..but it is nit that easy…it will take 2-3 generations to bear the fruits..like after so many years we can hear actually listen peopl r are talking of sex,aids,livin relations,gays openly…isnt it cahnge?? still we feel a bit odd when we here such things,dont we?? it will take time…ROME WAS NOT BUILT IN A DAY…!!!
One thing kindly clarify…When I wished everyone happy new year, my post was deleted..!!Others’ are there… Still I feel you have some grudges agaist me.. 🙂
Rewa Smriti said
@Nikhil,
I know it will not change immediately and it would be better to quote Shashwat’s comment here “no any magic to cure this problem. This generation will hv to cope up wth this disease. Next generation will see the change.” So, I would say that it will take time but caste system will remove from the society!
Note: I have deleted your comment unintentionally! Actually kuch comments delete karne ke chakkar mein by mistake aapke comment per bhi click ho gaya. I am sorry, mujhe aapse koi narazagi nahi hai. Once again, a very very happy new year to you.
rgds.
nikhil said
@ rewa
Please muze aap mat bolo…M not senior citizen yet..:-)
Thanks nd same to you nd ur family..!!
No hardfeeling…!!!
Shashwat said
@Nikhil
I am still waiting for ur response on “good things” abt caste.
Here u go….u wrote caste or religion…thts wht i said when evertything else is taken care by reliegion y we want caste???? Earlier there were no caste, but naamkaran n funerals were performed right??
I am sorry but u can not compare caste with Kashmir. This way one can compare anything to Kashmir!! I can compare terrorism to castiesm, will u agree?
I am telling you the moment u will start thinking abt “good things” abt caste, u will come out of that feel good feeling.
Nowhere in Geeta, Vedas, Purans, any of castes r mentioned. Karm is the imp thing, not janma. Then whn we r giving more imp to our janma than karma (main brahmin by janma nahi hun, but i am brahmin by karma, still as per ur standard i m not brhamin!!) this way we r insulting our religion.
Caste was formed only to manipulate ppl as per ur choice, since brahmins were respected, my son will also b a brahmin, even if he is a rapist. Mr A is a shudra by caste, but he is a warrior too, but no he wl remain shudra as per caste standard. But hinduism says, he is a kshatriya!!! Wo kiski sune?? Dharm ki ??Ya Caste ki?? U tell me…..
Shashwat said
“Varnashram system was for testing the abilities, tendencies, and talents of the children to determine their natural interests.”
Y sachin tendulkar is sachin tendulkar today??—testing the abilities, tendencies, and talents of the children to determine their natural interests!!!!!
Caste system destroyed all this. A brahmin by janma who is not supposed to be brahmin by karma, destroys the essense of hinduism. He is not performing his duties wht brahmins are supposed to perform, this way labelling him as a brahmin, is dangerous to dharm and rashtra.
Because of castes, buddhism n jainism came in existence, n one time hinduism was on the verge of extinction. Somehow due to efforts of Shankaracharya n other ppl we survived.
Because of castiesm we see see dirty politics in UP, Bihar n other states. Because of castiesm, certain section of society was considered as untouchables. Because of casteism we find it difficult to raise our voice for nation.
Casteism is dangerous to both dharma and rashtra.
“As society in India started to decay after distancing itself from the true Vedic system, and because of disunity and friction, it weakened to the point wherein it allowed the low-born or mleccha kings from outside India to come in and conquer and control it. This brought even further decline to the Vedic culture. Later, it was during the British reign in which the modern caste system became more widely practiced and ingrained in Hinduism. By now the caste system was completely different and separate from the Vedic system of Varnashrama. The British encouraged the practice of casteism to increase the divisions between people, thus making it easier for the British to rule over them.”
“This is one of the main reasons why the country has been weakened to such a degree that they could not properly defend themselves in a unified way from the genocide under the Muslim invasions, and now modern fundamentalism. This sort of fragmentation also forced Indians to endure two centuries of British persecutions.”
Shashwat said
Casteism today does not help society advance spiritually. In fact, it helps promote emphasis on bodily and social distinctions, contempt, and disapproval among the people of different classes and ethnic groups. For this reason, we still see today that when the Shudras and Dalits feel like they are disliked by fellow Hindus, they become Muslims, Christians, or Buddhists in the attempt to find greater acceptance and avoid class differences. The result of this has been social disharmony. Otherwise, there would have been no need for parts of India to be divided to create Bangladesh and Pakistan, which have since become nothing more than mortal enemies of India. Have any lessons been learned?
It is my personal vision of a casteless society, a society that focuses on unity through our spiritual identities, which are all equal and beyond bodily designations. It is my personal vision wherein everyone can work according to their own natural tendencies in a spirit of devotion to God without being categorized merely because of their birth. Like so many others, it is my vision of a society in which everyone can get along, cooperating and assisting each other in harmony toward our spiritual growth. However, we all have to work toward social reform. After all, what kind of world do you want to live in? What kind of world do you prefer? A world divided, full of social disparities and ethnic divisions? Or a world united in cooperation and harmony, all working to encourage and help each other through life? The decision is obvious.
nikhil said
@ shashwat
“hindu” dharm is not religion its way of living…!!!
If you see, wat traditions you follow are your caste’s traditions. Acuumulation of all castes is hindu religion wat we call.
Today our activities are never forced by our caste. I was never forced to become teacher in my life..!!!
Forget geeta and varnashram..as today they dont have any parlance as such. We can not bifucate our activities in only four classes. How many time it will change when we change our activities? when education,jobs are based on caste by birth,how can you justify varnashram today?
What u said is true but it has no practical viability. They look very attractive and ideal as we see varnashram and other geeta concepts. They cant be implemented.
hinuism was never on the verge of extinction..If you see all other sects,religions came into existtance are closely based on hinduism. They all tried to remove unwanted part it and tried to establish themselves, be it buddhism,jainism etc.
We really cant abolish caste/religion practically and we should not…!!!
Shashwat said
Yeah that is bcz of casteism man, great you accepted. For you if geeta n all don hv any relevenve, stop goin to mandirs, n all those things which are FORCED by reliegion on u.
Four classes having BROAD CATEGORIES, whatever profession u can think of are covered by 4. All r based on ur natural inclination not by birth.
Thats what, if its a way of living, then y we are not following it, we don want healthy life??
WE REALLY CAN ABOLISH CASTE and WE SHOULD!! And for God sake dont use caste/religion like u used in ur comment. Don try to hide caste behind religion.
Shashwat said
It will keep changing, thats the beauty of it. Why to be so rigid???? Flexibility is the key. Thats the backbone of any society. Any rigid community cant survive for long. You want to change profession today, ur religion supports it, what more u want. Not like today, where i m a chor or brahmin, i will b brahmin coz i m born in a brahmin family. Its social injustice, it doesnt treat human beings as equal. It creates inequality, social divide and disharmony. I dont understand how can u defend it.
Shashwat said
Its high time for all of us to understand n stop taking shelter of casteism. As we can see society is changing, youth’s mindset is changing. In a city like Delhi, ppl are preferring inter-caste marriages.
If we will not change, it will be impossible for those who still want to follow this caste system, to survive n grow. As we know, nature always provide us 1 chance to correct our mistake, if we wont then we will hv to ADJUST ourself, n making ADJUSTMENT is always difficult.
nikhil said
@ Shashwat
Mentioning Kashmir was only to emphasis that there are some issues which are very closely related to our sentiments and our pride associated with it. We cant give them up..!!!
Good thing about castes :
Lets start with wedding..isnt this trdition is awesome? the philosophy behind it? if they are not ruled by castes or religions what would be our society’s status?Spiritually and practically two human being can live togather,cant they? why we need marriages then?
Practically and spiritually every one is equal..so why we respect our elders? teachers? isnt it our caste/religion which tought us to do so?
why there are 16 sanskars right from garbh- sanskar to our funeral? are they useless?
Why we worship particular god in our home? why dont we cook meat on Diwali? spiritually every god and dharm are same..then why not?
Why we can have only one marriage for hindus? isnt it good?
Why islamic contries are called islamic? why they are so united? its because of their castes/religion….(caste+caste+caste+caste = religion )
though they may have internal rivalary..!!
We feel proud when we are callled secular….CAste/religion brings society togather..it has both sides..!!
You cant negate castes from religion..otherwise we cant have religion…!!!
If we are proud of being hindu…indirectly we should be proud of our castes too…
Rewa Smriti said
@Nikhil,
Casteism is not any religion! Let us not “mix up castes and religion”. These two are entirely different things! And mixing these two different things you are putting it(religion) down.
Rewa Smriti said
@Nikhil,
Hinduism has never taught any violence, regionalism, casteism etc. It also never devide people, but people hate caste system because it’s divide the people of hindustan!
Shashwat said
I think some serious confusion is there.
“Lets start with wedding..isnt this trdition is awesome? the philosophy behind it? if they are not ruled by castes or religions what would be our society’s status?Spiritually and practically two human being can live togather,cant they? why we need marriages then?”
Awesome tradition, agreed, but marriage was in existence even before casteism ok. And wht u wl say abt christians??
“Practically and spiritually every one is equal..so why we respect our elders? teachers? isnt it our caste/religion which tought us to do so?”
So u mean respecting elders is bcz of caste??? Man, how can u compare equality with respecting elders??????
“why there are 16 sanskars right from garbh- sanskar to our funeral? are they useless?”
First tell me, sanskaars n all are given by religion or caste???????
“Why we can have only one marriage for hindus? isnt it good?””
So u think its bcz of caste??? No coz of religion…
Shashwat said
I think u r getting confused b/w caste and religion. As rewa ji said “Casteism is not any religion! Let us not “mix up castes and religion”. These two are entirely different things! And mixing these two different things you are putting it(religion) down.”
Whn i m asking u count few good thing abt caste, u r mentioning religion……
Sir, please think,,religion is an older concept than casteism, n we were surviving tht time without castes ok.
As i said earlier, don take shelter behind religion. Don mix both. If u hv something to tell abt CASTE (Only) then please let us know. Don mix it wth religion. This way i can prove tht sati pratha was pure n sacred bcz was followed by Hindus, Bal vivah was gr8 followed by Hindus, doesnt make sense!!
nikhil said
@ shashwat
Its really amusing how you take it….But I bet you its not gonna happen.!!!!
Yeah that is bcz of casteism man, great you accepted. For you if geeta n all don hv any relevenve, stop goin to mandirs, n all those things which are FORCED by reliegion on u.
—-nobody goes there because our dharm forces us..come on dont we go there volutarily..!!
Four classes having BROAD CATEGORIES, whatever profession u can think of are covered by 4. All r based on ur natural inclination not by birth.
—-this is most funniest statement….be practical….”begging” kisme aayega? thieves? dancers? painters? engg??
What abt other religions? unko kidhar bifurcate karega?
Get out of dream my friend…!!!
Flexibility is a key….!!! Adjust karo…!!!
Wow…you can won hearts with these statements but has no ground practically..aisa hota to duniya me koi problems hi nahi hote…!!now plz stop telling ki koi magic nahi hoga & time lagega.!!!
You yourself few statements back condemed other with his caste nd by his deeds…..its bit awkward to read such tantalizing,sugercoated arguments from you…!!!
nikhil said
@ all Including Shashwat
Caste +CAste +Caste caste+caste+caste = Religion….clear???
Caste and castism are different…….Okkk ???
When you say abolish castism it includes abolishing castes too nd ultimately religion…!!!!
abolishing bitter part from our caste is only solution….!!
Let castes be there but treat them equally……!!! for that we have to adapt…!!!
Dont be insane to say abolish castes totally…!!!
X pratha followed by 1caste = hindu pratha
y pratha followed by 2 caste = hindu pratha
decide what u want…abolish pratha or caste…..!! as simple as that…
Rewa Smriti said
@Nikhil,
One can argue very convincingly “caste+caste+caste = Religion”, but practically it has nothing to do with religion now as anyone can be preist or can be driver.
Anyway, where there is caste system there will always be discrimination. Whatever the relevance, role, utility, and justification it may had but, now it has to be removed and it will remove from our society. It’s worse than anything in India! It is the cause of all the backwardness and misery of today’s India, so we must give up casteism today!
shashwat said
When i m asking u to quote few good things abt caste, u r silent or u r taking shelter of religion. Not quoting good things abt caste(jo ki hai hi nahi) u urself contradicts all ur logic.
I don knw which book u r talking abt, where its written?? Answr 1 thing, whn casteism was not there, our forefathers were not hindus. Cme on man its a funny statement.
Begging, thieves are unwanted part of society, no need to categorize them. And there are categories defined for painters, engg, dancers, doctors, CAs, politicians, cricketers, aamir khan, bloggers evry1. By laughing at anything wont prove tht its funny. U read abt it, see the link above i posted, u wl come to know.
Y u want us to be flexible??? U enlighten us by quoting few good things abt caste first.
http://www.stephen-knapp.com/casteism.htm
Read the content, it will clear all ur doubts.
shashwat said
Thank God, u r agree tht we shud remove bitter part. Go thru above link u wl come to knw tht whole caste sys is bitter, so to be removed.
Its daydreaming, when the base itself is wrong how can u ask others to treat evry1 equally. Whn a chor wl b considered as brahmin, u want others to ignore this treat evry1 equally?
Recognizing ppl based on their work is the most secular thing in the world. U r calling it impractical!!!!!
Rewa Smriti said
@Nikhil,
Hindusim is being destroyed because of caste system and their activities, humanity is insulted and you think we should be flexible with this activities or with this worst system. Why?
Ab adjust karne ke liye bhi space nahi bachi hai. Time is not very far, let’s wait and watch!
rgds.
Shahrukh Khan said
My Brother….Nikhil!
…Sorry man..but looks like you lost it completely. Not a problem. All above statements you mentioned above are senseless/baseless.
Just to give one example- you put Wedding as benefit of Caste/religion. Do you even know that there are some Hindu-castes where women do not have right for wedding/marriage…how ever they are allowed to be consumed by any one. If you don’t know ..then you will need to do little research.
Another example- you mentioned religions like Buddhism and Jainism are based on Hinduism….This is height! You don’t know either hinduism or buddhism and Jainism.
Another one…..Hinduism as religion does not put any rule for having only one wife. Hinduism allows polygamy. So if you stick to hinduism.. you can go for at max-16000 wives…that’s the record number I know you are allowed to cross as per hinduism.
You can make this discussion more better if you put some proper statements. Sorry sir…but kuchh to sense dalo !!
ranjeeta said
{See how castism deeply rooted in our mind…insted of blaiming Lucky,you labling , blaiming him with his caste…!!!}
Nikhil
Try to read his first two comments on this post. The way Lucky was writing, it looks like ‘Brahminism’ is the source of casteism so I merely opposed brahaminism for the concepts.
ranjeeta said
{We feel proud when we are callled secular….CAste/religion brings society togather}
Nikhil
In India, there are places where you still see the situation is very worst. Law can protect such families from open threats but who can save them from difficulties given to them indirectly because of caste system. Would you still feel proud if it happens with you or somebody show u down?
The caste system has been the cause of the disintegration so it has to be completely removed.
ranjeeta said
Nikhil
When someone request you to point out any good things in the caste system? You have given example of wedding. How can you forget dowry system which is the big evil for women, that too occurs in society because of caste system!!
All I wish to state is that, in India the rate of intercaste marriages is increasing. In the last few years, I observed more than 25% rise in families looking for prospective brides and grooms in different castes. Most of them are girls who are willing to settle themself. No caste bar for them. Caste system is a disease. I tell you, it will destroy.
Nidhi said
“why we respect our elders? teachers? isnt it our caste/religion which tought us to do so?”
@nikhil
i hvnt learnt ny gud thng frm d evil caste system.
in evry cmnt u bring caste/religion togather.wy do u brng thm together?if u wnt to discus on abt religion,v cn start a new topic ‘religion’ bt stop brnging thm togather.
kaifeeanwer said
How to get rid of caste system ?
There is division in every society. But when something wrong is done which voilates human values is a problem. So to get rid of these division we can following solutions.
1. Global Human – omit all other identity like religion, caste etc. Indian love India, Pakistani love Pakistan etc But we all are part of this globe called human. So we all love humans that moves towards all for GLOBALIZATION, not only for business but to reduce the differneces.
2. Inter Links – At official and organizational level, there should not be any criteria like caste or religion
3. Cultural difference – War of Civilization : – The history is evidence that primary reason for most of the wars and differences is the war of civilization or culture. So we need to accept all culture i.e not strict to our own culture.
shashwat said
Agreed Nidhi Ji,
Religion and Caste are 2 diff concepts. Ppl often take shelter of religion while defending caste system. This way they abuse religion as well.
nikhil said
@ all
I cant seperate religion and caste…!!! I dont know, I may be wrong..!!! As I feel religion is way of living…and the way we live is totally as per our castes traditions..!!! I cant see them seperately…!!!
Not a single community is there which has no distinctions within themselves…!!!
When castism was not there, definately there was groupism…!!!afterwords nomenclature must have done by our ancesters..!!! If you read human philanthropy you will undersatnd that..!!! Roght from the evolution humans never treated each other equally…!!!
YOu may feel that beggers,prostitutes are unwanted part..but you are nobody to decide..!! You can be unwanted part for somebody…..I really cant understand how are you going to bifurcate all professions in four categories….!!! its really funny…..!!
No comments abt SRK…..One suggetion…read hindu marriage act..!!! Rest you are genious..!! You can ignore my comment as It has very little sense….!!!
Shashwat,You tell me where it is written that every element of caste is bad?
Color discrimination is there in west world???? u agree?
Now you want people to remove there colours?
Or you want to remove it from minds? we should learn to treat them equally…
The same way…every castes has some good traditions lets preserve them….remove bitter part like dowry,sati,offering animals etc…removing castes completely is insane and radical step..!!!
nikhil said
@ Kaifee
Sugercoated statements..not at all practical……!!!!
Nice to read them..
nikhil said
@ Ranjeeta
The dowery is evil tradition…now what you want?? , removing dowry or abolishing our wedding system which is followed by us for years as per our caste’s traditions ?
I cant understand why you want to remove caste completely?
Soceity based on activities will also face problems…Will we compare our CEO and peon equally? There are doctors who behave like thieves..wat will you do then?
Inequality will be always there…!!!!
shashwat said
“The same way…every castes has some good traditions lets preserve them….remove bitter part like dowry,sati,offering animals etc…removing castes completely is insane and radical step..!!!”
Bade bhai, ENLIGHTEN US BY TELLING FEW GOOD THINGS ABOUT CASTE. For last few days u r repeating same thing, come on i am asking for the 3rd time. And again, don mix caste n religion.
nikhil said
All wise man we had, always opposed “Pratha” and not religion or castes….!!
They tried their best to abolish prathas and not castes or religions…!!!
They opposed “Sati”,”Bal vivah”,”Dowry”,”Widow wedding”.
I guess they were not as genious as we are…!!! and they are not at all infuenced by articales writen by some foreigh authors….!!!
shashwat said
“Inequality will be always there…!!!!”
Pakistan will always create issue over Kashmir, so u wl say tht Terrorism will always b there. If i wl go by ur logic u wan to convey Lets not unite agst terrorism!!!!
nikhil said
@ shashwat
I got somewhere on net..kindly go through
The Maharashtrian wedding ceremony exhibits wonderful magnificence. Usually, marriages among the Maharashtrians take place in the morning. An auspicious time or Muhurat is chosen, which is known as the Goraj Muhurat. During the ceremony at the time of Shubh Muhurat, the girl’s maternal uncle escorts her to the Mandap. The girl and boy are not allowed to see each other for some time. Then the shlokas are chanted and this is followed by the removal of Antarpaat. People shower Akshata (unbroken rice) on the couple. The garlands are then exchanged between the bride and groom and the couple takes Saat Pheras or Mangal Pheras in front of the holy fire.
After the marriage ceremony, Laxmi Narayan puja is conducted, in which the bride and groom are worshipped as Goddess Lakshmi and Lord Narayan. The girl’s hand is formally given to the groom in the ceremony known as Jhal Phirawne or Kanya Daan. There has been a custom among the Maharashtrians to change the name of the girl after marriage. This ceremony, if held is usually performed the groom’s house. The reception party is hosted on the night of marriage, for which a special feast is prepared.
Gujarati wedding ceremonies begin with offering prayers to Lord Ganesha and seeking his blessings. Like any other traditional Indian wedding, Mehndi and Sangeet ceremonies follow it. Jaimala or flower garlands are exchanged between the bride and the groom twice. First time, the groom is on a higher platform than the bride, while, the second time, they are at an equal level. In the Madhuparka ceremony, the groom’s feet are washed and he is given honey and milk to drink. While the ceremony is on, the bride’s sisters attempt to steal the groom’s shoes, known as ‘Juta Churai’. The groom who seeks to have his shoes back handsomely rewards them for this later.
One of the most important wedding rituals is Kanya Daan in which the bride’s father washes the groom’s feet and gives his daughter’s hand to him hoping that he will take good care of her. The bride is considered to be a form of Goddess Laxmi and the bridegroom is considered to be Lord Narayan. Hasta Milap ceremony involves the tying of the groom’s shawl to the bride’s sari. The tying of knot and the joined hands of the couple are emblematic of the meeting of the two hearts and souls. The family and relatives sprinkle rose petals and rice grains on them.
Pheras come next and are rounds that the couple takes around the sacred fire, as the priest chants mantras. Saptapadi are the seven steps that the married couple walks together and takes seven vows. Then, the couple seeks the blessings of their parents and other elders. This marks the conclusion of the wedding ceremony and is followed by a reception party. In the Vidaai ceremony, the bride bids farewell to her parents, friends and relatives and both of them part moving towards their home, with a new life awaiting them.
This is only one tradition….open you eys..you will see lot of good things…!!
Still there are 1000s caste and their wonderful traditions…..!!!!
nikhil said
Inequality will be always there…!!!!
This doesnt mes lets not find solution against it…!!!
Problems will be there…that doesnt mean we shouldnt find solutions…!!
Dont draw conclusions as per your convenience…!!!
Terrorism is a problem for that we have to find solution that doesnt mean we should kill each nd every pakistani…!!!
shashwat said
Yeah nice article. But frnd where its written tht its followed by certain castes?? All these traditions were n wl always b in existence irrespective of the fact whether caste system is in existence or not…..Even of caste system is abolished ppl wl keep following these customs n traditions.
I think some confusion is there b/w caste, riligion n customs.
ranjeeta said
Man, now you brought customs and tradition!
My personal position in such matters like Hinduism stands guilty, for no fault of its own, but, because of the caste system. Its a known fact, that Casteism is a disease to be cured and not something to take pride of.
nikhil said
Maharashtrian means….people of maharashtra including their different castes…
Marawaries include their subcastes…!!!
Gujaraties include their subcastes….!!!
How can you say that people will follow these traditions? why ? if they have no caste…wat they will follow?
If you see marriage is marriage…if it is court marriage….if you do it with gujrati way, brahmins way..persion way..catholic way..any way you can do…
But think why we have such specific traditions in our castes? why we have 7 phere?? and why not 153? why this is not followed in kerala? why they have different way?
See there are diff things..we cant and should not eradicate them completely…!!!
Few bad things are there..lets unite against them…!!
Nidhi said
nikhil
u r v v confused.marathi nd gujrati ki bat nai hai.wat v r following is d hindu tradition.court mrige v hote hain.nyway d hindu custom cud b reformed bt fr caste system v dnt hv other option.d only option is,it hs to b removed.
nikhil said
When you say hindu tradition..
Brahmin wedding….hindu tradition
Marwari wedding …hindu tradition
Rajput wedding….hindu tradition
So we say say that it is hindu tradition but ultimately its our castes traditions we follow…our caste is part of hindu religion..it becomes hindu wedding..!!!
nikhil said
@ Ranjeeta Nidhi
What you are saying abt intercaste marriages is absolutely right.
If you see, in this way we are
1.Accepting one caste into other caste…Which was not done before..!!..welcome step..!!
2.If both of them maintain their respective castes as one of the cases with our friend we have…it is nothing but maintaining castes but treating them equally, isnt it??
So whem we encourage intercaste/religion marriages, we are actually not eradicating caste or religions but learning to treat them equally…!!!
Thats what we want..treating equalllllyyyy…!!!
Kiran said
Yesterday,I was asking same thing to my parents. They said me that they wouldnt mind about caste in relationship if the guy is good. Prsonally, I think there will be somebody to ‘UPHOLD’ but it will be out of our society for the betterment of all and society would be much more harmonious and stronger. So, believe in yourself, it may take few more years to abolish this system but it will remove.
Kiran said
@Nikhil, your own modified version of logic have contradictions and not blanced. This will actually lead you to several things to prove yourself right! It will not allow you to remove caste system from your mind unless you try.
nikhil said
@ Kiran
My modified version of logic…Wow sounds nice..!! where is original??
can you kindly elaborate : how it is not balanced and wat are the contradictions ???
So that I can explain if at all I could..!!
shashwat said
“My modified version of logic…Wow sounds nice..!! where is original??”
🙂 🙂 Read 1 to 148, you will come to know 🙂 🙂
nikhil said
Atleast it not based on some foreign author…:-) 🙂
Shanta said
Must Read…..
I went in a tribal village.. there I asked about caste.. the person simply said… see those don’t eat meat are brahmin.. those who eat meat are not brahmin.. on the basis of eating habit people descrimited among themselves…
basically, people who give a new direction to the society.. has to sacrifice a lot in physical terms.. but they get honour in return.. brahmins are those who always sacrificed their own personal desire for society and hence they are revered and kept at the highest position…
in modern society, people are fool as they are only carrying their caste but not the attached profession.. carpenter, blacksmith, shoemaker etc. are the engineers of their time but they are considered as shudra.. today most of engineers are brahmin by caste…
please think yourself.. on these line…
Shanta said
akhir varn vyavastha bhi kyun….
bade machhliya hamesha chhoti machhaliyon ko dans leti hain.. yahi kam manushya bhi karta aa raha hain.. lekin manushya ke paas karuna hain.. karunamay insan ko logo ka dukh dekha nahin gaya.. unhone sochna suru kiya kis tarah se logo ka dukh dur kiya jaye… paya ki yadi vyakti imandari se apna karm karen aur jitni avashykata hain utna hi upyog karen to asamanta hone ke bad bhi sabhi log sukhi honge… lekin aisi vyavastha layiin kaise jaye.. iske liye jaroori hain ki desh sanyasiyo ke haath me ho.. jo logo ka dukh dard samajhe aur baki sabpe lagam laga ke rakhe… sanyasi bhavwa vastra dharan karta tha jo tyag ka prateek tha… apne desha ka jhanda bhi bhagve colour ka hi tha.. jo tyag ki bhavna ko prabal karne ka sanket tha… tyag kaun kar sakta hain.. ek murkh nahin kar sakta.. tyag karne ki shakti ek intellectual and great philosopher hi kar sakta hain… to is vyavastha ko sunishchit kaise kiya gaya hoga…
Shanta said
ab hua yun ki.. jo bachhe the unhe gurukul me bheja gaya taki samaj ka uspar prabhav na pade.. prarambh me sharirik and thodi bahut intellectual shiksha diya gaya.. 8-10 saal ke antaral par exams liya gaya hoga basically uska swaroop kuchh aur raha hoga aur kuchh samaj me bhej diya gaya hoga jo shadi vivah kar samanya kam kar jeevan yapan kare.. punah adhik shiksha dekar kuchh logo ko bheja hoga.. jo vyapar karta hoga.. uske baad stage me logo ko raja, sainik vagairah banne ke liye bhej diya gaya hoga.. jo bachte the unko tyag ka path padhaya gaya hoga.. apne apne field ka mahn jygani.. ye logo ko samaj me bhej bhi gaya hoga ki kahin ye apne vichar se vichalit to nahin hue.. punah 8-10 saal ke baad hi unhe brahmantva ki sanjgya di gayi hogi.. inki apni koi sampati nahin hoti balki sampoorna desh, vyakti samaj sab inka hota tha… aapne mahabharat ramayan me aise kai drishya bhi dekhe honge jaha raja sanyasi ke samne haath jode khada hota tha.. raja galtiya karen to unhe bhi saja di jaati thi.. in sanyasi me junta ka atut vishwas hota tha aur ye cheese aaj bhi jhalakti hain.. jo bhi vyakti samaj ke liye niswarth sewa karta hain.. vayakti unhe adar saman dete hain aur unme swatah shraddha ho jati hain…
Shanta said
ab aise sanyasi ko bhagwan bhi bhajte hain.. isliye aisa mana jane laga ki wo brahma ke hriday kamal se nikala hain.. yah adar dene ka ek tarika tha..
shudra jo samaj ka sabse kamjor varga hota tha wo brahma ke pair se nikla hain..
lekin baki sabka yah kartvay hota hain ki wo shudro ko hamesha dhyan rakhen unki raksha karen.. isliye sabko bhagwan ke pair chhookar pranam karna padta hain… yah samajhne ki baat hain…
kal ke antar me bahut utar aur chadhav aaye but parishthiti kabhi vikat nahin hui… samaj sukh poorvak jeeta raha…
islamic invasion ne sanskriti ke kai kadi ko toda.. jisme shiksha vyavstha thi… sarvajanik shiksha vyavstha nasht kar diye gaye.. parinam yah hua ki.. shikhsa vyaktigat ho gaya.. shiksha ko bachane ke liye.. mata pita ne apne bachche ko shikhaya usne fir apne bachhe ko shikhaya.. fir shiksha bahut star tak parivarik hui… angrejo ke jamane me bhi aisi hi bat rahi.. but sanskriti chuki unnat hain.. andhiya aayi aur toofan aaye.. but samay samay par ise rokne ke liye logo ne jeevan arpan kiya aur dharm ki raksha kiya
Shanta said
samay samay par sanskriti ki raksha ki gayii.. ravan ko mar kar ram ne jaha samarik shakti badhaya tha wahi ek patni ka system lakar stri ko samman diya.. saath me sita banwas ne samaj ko sochne par majboor kar diya ki riste vishwas par tike hote hain.. paraye ghar me rahne se stri apavitra nahin ho jati..
kshatriyon ki sankhya jyada hone se wo samaj par atyachar karta hain.. parinam krishna ne mahabharat racha.. lekin wo achhi tarah janta tha shashan kshatirya hi kar sakte hain isiliye pandav ko hi raja banaya… yah unki mahanta tha saath me unhone samaj ko kai nai dishaye di…
chanakya ne desh ko ajad hi nahin karaya varan sanskriti ke raksharth desh ko ek shashan ke andar laya.. jo kisi jamane me ram ne bhi kiya tha.. us samay chhatro ne prano tak ki ahuti di thi aur yaman satta ke chhakke chhudaye..
kalantar me islamic conversion ko rokne ke liye bhakti andolan chalaya.. tulsidas ne ramleela ki suruat ki aur.. jan jan ne fir ram ka gungaya.. jeevan ka mahtva samjha aur sanskriti aage badhi.. punah jab aurangjeb dharm parivartan ke liye maut ka tandav rach raha tha us samay guru govind 9 varsh ki avastha me pita ko mrityun ko alingan karne ke liye prerit kiya aur swyang bhi poorna jeevan shakti samvardhan karne me bitaya aur hindu jeevan padhhati ki raksha ki.. akhir isme kuchh bat hain…
aaj bhi samasyaye hain.. desh ke samne chunautiya hain.. hindu dharma me anya dharm ko pachane ki shakti hain kyunki ye kisi ke shraddha aur viswas par chot nahin karta.. ham udar bane banen but apne dharm ke prati jagruk rahe…
samasyaye hain.. lekin itihas gavah hain ki hamne samasyae door ki hain.. lekin moobhoot sindhhant par anch nahin aane diya.. aur aage bhi karte rahenge.. Jati vyavastha boorai hain to ham mita denge… bas ham tyag karne ke liye taiyar rahe…
Shanta said
sabhi dharma ka core spirituality hoti hain.. ye ham jante hain aur mante bhi hain… yadi bhartiya gayen poojniya hain to wo hindu dharma ke karan nahin balki apne guno ke karan..
aaj ke is yug me jab log mahagayiin ke karan dava nahi le pate aur mrityu ko gale lagate hain.. wahi cow ke different things se tarah tarah ki davayiaya banai jati hain jo saste damon par asani se mil jayegi.. isliye wo garibo ke liye bhagwan hi hain.. chahe wo garib hindu ho chahe ho musalman chahe ho chrishchian.. lekin hindu dharma yaha ke culture par based hain.. isliye bharat ke jeeban padhhati me ye sabse upyogi hain..
aapko bata doon.. research ke dwara ye proved hain ki cow ki ye property keval bharatiya cow(obviously pakistani, nepali, bangladesh) me hi hain aur kisi me nahin…
usi tarah se tulsi ka paudha ham ghar me lagate hain.. khasakr angan me nali ke kinare.. ye kitanuon ko door rakhta hain..
poonah ham kamarbandh(kal dori) kyunn pahnte hain kyunki ye hamen measurement batata hain
isliye hamen poorn samajhdari se kam lena chahiye.. jo achhi cheesen unhe sanjoye aur jo bura hain use tod fenke.. akhir yahi to bhartiyata hain…
isliye dosto bhartiya soch paida karo aur tyag ka jama pahan kar desh ki seva hote ise ek nayii disha do…
kataksh: apne desh ke jhanda me tyag ko ek tihai karke samrdhi aur aur shanti wagairah ko ek ek tihai de diya hain.. jabki tyag me hi samriddhi chhipi hain aur tyag me hi shanti chhipi hain. jo shaksh tyag kar matritva suckh ka anand uthata hain tyag ke wah sarvochh shikar par chadh jata hain.. aur ham sab jante hain mata hamesha apne bachho ke sukh chain ka hi khayal karti hain…
Shashwat said
Achi baaten likhi aapne.
Rewa Ji, Koi naya post likhen.
ranjeeta said
Most educated Indians were/are against the caste system. When it comes to dignity and the right, as far as I can see, the caste system violates this right.
In my opinion, we must change this system. I do believe this will not change quickly over night. As someone pointed out, it will take a few generations. People would understand what’s the conclusion. The sooner we will succeed in removing this inhumane system.
nikhil said
@ Ranjeeta
This system is prevailing for 1000s years…the system itself is not inhumane however some things are there which are not acceptable to us.
Like we almost succeded in abolishing Sati over a period of time.. and as you rightly said we will come over ill prathas of our castes and we will learn to treat all castes equally.
I dont see our castes will go away…but castism will definately…!!!!
ranjeeta said
In my opinion, we must change this system. I do believe this will not change quickly over night. As someone pointed out, it will take a few generations. People would understand what’s the conclusion. The sooner we will succeed in removing this inhumane system.
Kiran said
@Ranjeeta
I agree with your point of view. It is possible to have an Indian society without caste system. My belief is that the system will go away in a generation or two.
Nidhi said
@ranjeeta
ur stand is v clear, caste wil go away.too many peple hav already started throwing it frm thir lives.v wil b breaking down the rigid hindu caste system.
Gagandeep said
Brahminism is the origin of caste system and the main eveil of the society. Brahminism will die a natural death. 🙂
nikhil said
Brahminism is the origin of caste system and the main eveil of the society..
This is most illogical and irresponsible and immatured statement..!!!
Anyways, everything which came into existance has to die one day…Brahminism is no exception…:-)
One point : Ranjeeta, Kiran & nidhi kindly think over it…
“Jati” and “Jatiyata” …humein jati mitani hai ya jatiyata?
If it is so easy to have caste less society in a generations or two..it wouldnt have lasted for so many generations…!!!
NEways we all are smarter than our all wise ancestors….!!! aint we?
THose who say inter caste marriage will eradicate casts ( Not castism ) is height of subtle understanding of the subject….!!! however it will definately eradicate castism….!!!! But castes will prevail till extinction of human specie….!!!!
Kiran said
I think the final opinion of this episode is already mentioned by Ranjeeta. You can read that.
Nidhi said
I m v sorry bt i dnt want to argue or fight wid u nymore.
it is wel written by shashwat,pls go to d views-
ranjeeta said
I should emphasize the fact that I have already written.
nikhil said
Majority wins…..Truth prevails….!!!
No further comments…..!! My last post on this topic.
Ambika said
So many things have been said about.. all that is left for me is – Rewa, continue writing good.. 🙂
God Bless!
Abhishek said
Caste – traditional way of differentiating and categorizing the one kind of population predominantly based on their occupation. In different time periods the different authority and responsibilities had offered to the people based on their caste. Few castes enjoyed some privileges in different time periods.
After Independence, in democratic India, our constitution provided the fundamental rights to every Indian. The first one is the right of equality. It says, State should not discriminate against any citizen on grounds only of religion, race, caste, sex or place of birth. So we omitted the differentiation based on caste on the paper but it was not easy to omit it from the heart of the people. It has become permanent in hundreds of years. In this long period the people digested this cast system and became rigid towards it. It became the identity and the value for the people. And it is the law of nature: No one wants to lose his/her identity. So I think we cannot omit the cast from our society but definitely we can fight for our fundamental right of social equality, social security irrespective of any differentiation.
Differentiation is obvious. We cannot omit it, especially in the most diversified country of the world like India.
I speak Hindi-I got differentiated.
I am Hindu-I got differentiated.
I am Bihari-I got differentiated.
I am kayasth – I got differentiated.
.
.
.
I am an Engineer – I got differentiated.
I am male – I got differentiated.
.
.
I am Nonvegiterian – I got differentiated.
.
.
Even when i say, I am Indian – I got differentiated from other part of the world.
Like this there are hundreds factors that differentiating each individual from others. It is not easy to get rid of those differences, because any of these factors can be the value for someone. I learnt, we should be broad minded, we must be open to change, but we must not compromise on values. So, we can respect others values and believes with all differences co-existing and can try for the betterment of the society.
So, Caste will be there…Religion will be there…Nationality will be there….
As someone correctly said nothing is more important than human values…so we can’t stop loving, we can’t stop helping, we can’t stop motivating and we cannot stop respecting others because of inevitable differences.
Abhishek said
As some one asked – “tumlog caste system ko hatana ku nahi chahate ho”
I am neither saying that caste system is right nor trying to justify it.I am just trying to see the reality and the fact.I really dont understand the meaning when someone says “cast hatao”.Todays India’s caste system is in a state of transition. A half century of democracy has raised the status and esteem of the lower castes and certainly in coming future caste will become symbolic of ethnicity rather than hierarchy.But if some one think it will disappear,i have doubt.
As someone asked-“If caste is there,reservation should be there on caste basis”.
I disagree.Education has always been the answer to raising the
backward castes and not reservations and quotas,as the political
movement of the backward class fighting for( specially in Goverment job, in higher education and for critical positions) .A more vigorous rural education thrust by goverment would certainly has answered greater equality of oppurtunity.
As we know India is one of the fastest growing economies in the world.At this growth rate there will be unprecedented new jobs and it will create new opportunities for every one.The better job,it is true,will go to better educated.But as the lower castes begin to realize that better jobs are in private sector
rather than in the goverment,they will turn one hopes,to education rather than to resrvations.
Vishal said
If we want to remove the clever evil caste system, we must get rid of the brahminic priest system. We gradually remove the caste barrier from our mind to live in peace.
Ranjeeta said
@Vishal
Very much true! If you and me walk on a street, or stand in a queue to pay our bills, etc. no one will know the difference. You will see here, it is not politicians but our religion that is responsible for the origin of caste system. Therefore, it is in our religion we find the root; and it is that we should reform first of all.
nikhil said
Brahminic priest system??? wat is that??? Kindly elaborate..!!
Ranjeeta said
“But as the lower castes begin to realize that better jobs are in private sector.”
Abhishek
Who is lower? What is upper and lower? How can you say that you are from upper caste? Stop carring the stupid mentality. People are neither Upper nor Lower.
Nidhi said
@abhishek
hw do u say tht u blong to upper caste?who tld u?
Evry human being is born equal.
Vishal said
When it comes to ritual, each community considers itself to be the highest. The priest need not be a brahmin. The caste system does exist in people’s minds that should be removed.
Abhishek Das said
@ Ranjeeta and Nidhi
First, Its my mistake, I used the wrong word and I am sorry if I hurt someone’s sentiments.
Second, where ever I mentioned ‘lower caste’, Please refer it as ‘socially backward caste’ or ‘Dalits (SC/ST)’, the terms used in our constitution.
Third, I think No where I mentioned that I belong to upper caste.
Fourth, the fact is that, differentiation exist in our society based on the caste and its visible to the naked eye. No one needs to do the any analysis to reach that conclusion.
I am just trying to explore the ideas that will help to bridge the undesired gap. Just Saying that “cast hatao”, doesn’t make any sense. If you have some ideas please put it forward. Please have a look on my aforementioned comments. Hope u will understand what I want to convey.
If u think there is no upper, no lower, no differentiation, no gap, no inequality…u r just trying to avoid the fact…human being is ‘not’ born equal. The moment ‘one’ comes in this cruel world, he/she get differentiated…
You can dream an imaginary world, but don’t forget to see the reality when u want to improve the situation…
Prabhudev said
I think that the caste system will not vanish unless proactive steps are taken to break the barriers among the castes and remove untouchability.
Prabhudev said
The caste is created based on the work they are doing. If at all caste is required the castes should be as follwows:
1. Farmers. 2. Engineers. 3. Doctors. 4. Lawyers. 5. Actors. 6. Maiden Workers. 7. Tailors. 8. Teachers. 9 .Poojaris. 10.Barbers. 11.Business Men so on… depending on the work they are doing. Anyone will do pooja works in the Temples.
As per Vedas/any Puranas there is no untouchablity. the original concept of social order has been abused over the ages. The original caste system also supported the moving of individuals from one caste to another based on one’s actions and performance in society.
The politicians are using the term Caste to seperate the People and cash the Vote Bank. As per the current trends there should not be any word with the Caste is to be present in any of the Government Documents starting from school documents.
T Shakunthala said
Dear all
The caste system was originally based upon occupation. Tell me, which is the higher caste? Brahman, or priests? I believe caste should be completely removed from its society. One can now join the army, become a preist. I see no reason why this can not be happend.
Be the change you want to see in the world…Don’t give up!
T Shakunthala said
There will always be some people who want to keep this caste system alive. We are having caste
system in such a way, they devided into upper, backward and lower castes based on Birth.
I strongly believe, we need to get rid of the caste system for the development. So I started it with myself. I had title in my name ‘Reddy’ signified caste, I removed it from my name. Now I removed this from my son. I faced lot of criticism. Lets change india…join hands to change the face of india by changing the people who represent it.
Ranjeeta said
T Shakunthala
I salute you! Tradition of the rigid caste system to be removed from India. We need to remove every caste based identity externally and bring internal change in mindset that our only identity is humanity.
Promila Jha said
Dear Rewa Ji…
This is in reply of your post “Do you think Brahmin is the only people who can do all priest job in the temple? I don’t think so! Whoever they are it doesn’t matter, if they have knowledge of all mantras or puja vidhies correctly then they have all rights to do it.”
Jaise ek Bramin ko government jobs ya policies mein reservation nahin mil sakta waise hi Koi SC Mandir mein pooja nahin kar sakta.
Only Brahmin reserves the rights to be priest in Temples. And ofcourse they have knowledge of all mantras thats why they are there…and by raising this you are challenging the belief of millions of Bramins in India and Abroad..
Rewa Smriti said
@Promila Jha,
Sabse pahle aap ye bata dijiye ki aap Vishal Verma hein ya Promila Jha? I am sure, you must be knowing why I have asked you that. Please have guts to write your true identity!
Rest I would like to delete your comment in stead of replying to you now.
Yes; I shouldn’t challenge your core belief which need to grow, and I wouldn’t like to challenge the belief of the people who think like you in India and worldwide. But, I will try my best to remove the caste system!
Thanks for visiting this blog.
Abhishek Das said
People have always different opinion.
This is the fact that there are differences based on Caste, Religious believes,Race,Physical ability,Sexual orientation, physical characteristics,Age,Income,Education,Parental status, Geographic location,Languages,Material status and so on…
But the question is “can we come togather despite all these differences?”
My dear friends,we need to learn the diversity management.
Holy~Devil said
People like PROMILA JHA are real proof of how an investment on education is a waste. I really doubt about India becoming an economic super power and world leader on all grounds unless these hurdles are eliminated or rectified. They are real hurdles who read book as a file of information and give all the possible shits.They learn how to read and write and then do unfruitful talking.
Cheers
Holy~Devil
Nidhi said
i totaly agree wid holi devil.
wen education cnnt chnge som1s mentality,i doubt if nything else cn?
abt d brahmin priest issue,it sud b noted dat brahmins r nt d priests in evry tmple.nw de do nt hold a monopoly ovr pujas.
Kiran said
The common people are now eligible to enter into the priest training program. The only thing people have to do is to wash away the ego. Now we will have to realize this fact and abolish the caste system.
Kiran said
@Promila
Only fools and sick people can write like you. Ultimately priest job is a profession fetching money. 🙂 The pandits now are not the pandits in real sense. You have to remove false beliefs from your mind.
sospokesaroj said
Oh boy, this is a tough one.
As far as I understand it, the caste system as it exists today is a gross perversion of what it was originally intended to do (no surprises there). The caste system was not hereditary, but rather a mark of spiritual progress. People ended up getting married to each other based on caste because it seemed to make the most sense to pair spiritually similar people so that they could help each other to advance further spiritually. Something like that.
Why people still do it today? It seems more convenient, since the assumption is that people of the same caste will be more similar. I think ego has a lot to do with it too, since high caste people won’t even think about marrying low caste people. Baffles the mind sometimes.
I thought said
Some say caste system practice is no more what is was originally intended to do, yet some believed is should be not challenged. When one element is generated, accepted and institutionalized, it is always for a good reason. Obviously, it is not required when the basic purpose is not even served in anyway. However, culture and religion are social elements, and they should be respected.
I have seen remark where it sounds only high class people should have the right to preach. I do not know why only high class people should have the right to preach.
I assume there are two reasons for such discussion.
1) High class people are more gifted by god and only they can understand those preaching. If it is the case, we have to also assume those people are good at look for their look should not scare followers, as they are the angel dispatched by god to enlighten our mind, and to purify the society.
2) Why only those people can preach? If they are not gifted, then it could be that they are favored in the society. They are favored in different way. It could be that only those people are given the opportunity to learn those preaching scripts, where beings equal is not treated equally.
I do respect culture and religion, but also believe the function and impact of culture and religion on human society should be positive and very positive. So, I would prefer to forward two suggested solutions.
1) If high class is more gifted in any way. Then the high class preaching practice should continue for you and I will not learn it even if we are given such an opportunity, and even if the best masters are assigned to teach us. We have to accept that we are intelligently lower than the high class.
2) If high class is favored and given learning opportunity, then changes should be in action. If those people who are born equally should be given equal opportunity to learn, and to access all these holy script. We do not know, God may even want each of us to enlighten ourselves, instead of being dependent on priest.
Since, I mentioned culture and religion are essential element in society. Its removal might affect social stability and bring social unrest, erase social faith. Thus structure and function should be clearly separate.
1) The high class people are from high social class, and believed to have special gene in their bodies and gifted by god. So they should be highly respected – structure, and highly privileged even in term of power – function.
2) The high class people are from high social class and their position in the social structure should be challenged, and they should be given high respect. Yet, their function in the society could be questioned for one might believe we all are equal human being.
-Gyaltsen
Nidhi said
caste system ws man made.dis historical fraud must end.peple sud lern abt dis manipulation nd chnge deir attitudes.
Dr. Subhash said
If we go to the origin of caste it will lead you to the profession of the people. In the later Vedic period, the Varna system showed its signs of appearance with the classification of Brahmin. The word Brahmin was not used out of any sense of respect. But mainly people as priests disguided manipulated them to their benefit,which finally lead to making of caste and sub castes. Wherever they could see a chance to fit their mean interests.
It is high time we have to get rid of such system. No one else can do it.
Dr. Subhash Prakash
Dr. Subhash said
Today we have miserably failed to understand what a brahmin is. Generally we believe that one is born by birth in a certain class. This belief has keenly been protected and propagated by the cunning priests for their own sake. The very idea of being born in one birth as brahmin is unscientific. Even the physical body structure does not make one a brahmin. The body is made of matter and matter acts uniformly in every time.
Dr. Subhash Prakash
Vishal Prasun said
“Only Brahmin reserves the rights to be priest in Temples.”
Promilaji,
you have it and manage your reservations at temple, no body gonna stop you. Case may be little different when the issue of reservation comes in education and job, but here I beleive that you really don’t have to say anything. I will suggest you to expand your thinking.
Hi Rewa,
A very good initiative u have statrted. Thanks and congrates for this. Hope all the people can understand this. Caste system is the root cause of most of the problems in India. We should find ways to eradicate it. Let’s discuss more ways to eradicate this chronic disease from our society.
mikecunningham said
I posted on the ‘caste’system on my blogsite in June last year, and during the research I did for that post discovered that approximately some 250,000,000 people are classed as, or live by, the circumstances imposed by this disgusting belief and religious practice.
My question, put rather bluntly, is why the hell do you people accept the status quo, instead of voting for people and Parties who would actually do something to change this oppressive way of life?
PK said
The caste system was based on the qualities and profession. It is not based on the birth as said in Gita (Chatur Varnyam Maya Srustam). We should understand it.
In the Mahabharata and the Ramayana there are several instances of intercaste marriages like Shakuntala and Dushyanta, even rishimunies had intercaste marriages, for ex. Vasishta and Arundhti. Vasishtha and Arundhati are considered to be role models for couples according to mythology. Arundhati is the only woman who is allowed to sit among the Saptarishi.
We are free to marry anyone of our choice, be it of any caste and creed.
We must abolish this NOW.
Sameer Kumar said
‘Only Brahmin reserves the rights to be priest in Temples’
Who is brahmin?
Priests and Swamis are all fraud. The Hindu religion was being distorted by the brahmins to suit their narrow agenda. Any one can learn sanskrit and master the vedas. This isn’t personal property of caste Brahmins. If we still practice the cruel and stupid system of caste today, the great religion of Hinduism will be wiped out in a few generations.
Dr Rajashree Ranjita said
“we have to not follow the foolish indian yoga ,mantra,shastra,ayurved because they wer written by Brahmins … ”
Reply to comment #2
This is a misconception that all these yoga ,mantra,shastra,ayurved are written by brahmins.Truly these are created By brahma who created this whole Universe.Ayurveda is part of Atharva Veda.No individual has written Veda or Vedic mantras.We should not bother who has written these whether he is brahmin or non brahmin, if it is useful to the society.Castism is not at all there in the Vedas.It was interpreted wrongly.
Nihar Singh said
The caste system was used for exploitation and abuse by the brahmin priests, who found it to be a convenient way of perpetuating their religious distinction and social privileges. The weakness of india is caste system which divides our society. Today the idea of caste system still prevails in the minds of many Hindus. Why can’t people from other castes act as temple priests ? It should be reformed with the times.
Ranjeeta said
The problem is even the caste system is different in different states.
http://beta.thehindu.com/news/states/tamil-nadu/article34124.ece
Nidhi said
i just dnt undrstnd dese peple nd hw dey distinguish d caste.caste or religion sudnt b an excuse to ban one frm entering a temple.v must reform age old traditions wich do nt hav ny importance in dis presnt day.evryone sud b allowed to pray whrevr dey want to pray.
M Venugopal said
Are you guys stone age people ? Have we ever tried to understand what Dharma is? This system will never let India grow nor prosper nor let us be in peace. You do not need to bath in a river nor take oaths, just delete it frm the hidden area of your mind which can destroy the whole system of our society. We must abolish this. Everyone should be allowed entry into all temples. All things have a beginning and ending in this world – the foremost rule of nature. THIS IS END OF THE GAME.
Samuel welsh said
free india from the caste system
Vishal said
This has caused so many problems. In fact so many crimes against humanity have been committed due to the caste system. It has to be wiped out from India.
amit said
Allowing entry in temples, removing reservation etc will never remove caste system from india. a bhangi remains bhangi for others even he becomes CEO of a company. only way to remove caste is to destroy all surames which tells about caste. no one should be allowed to use surame. eve mentionig ones caste for any purpose should be a criminal offence and that person should be put in jail.
Rashmi said
I suggest that using caste names be made illegal.
Ashish said
I agree with you that caste system should be surely abolished from India but how? I think young generation should be encouraged for intercaste marrriages.
Change urself if you want to change the world !
Bob said
Change is the only constant. Keep up the good work, nice site!
-Bob
Bincy said
Hi Didi,
Nice post. Even I am against caste system. I didn’t experience any caste problem till my marriage. There is no caste system among Kerala Christians, but other Christians still have (Tamil Nadu, etc.)
What we have studied was that there were four castes based on occupation. I beg to differ in this matter.
What I have understood is Caste system is a part of invasion. I am not talking about British invasion. Long log ago, people moved to Indian subcontinent from other parts of the world. They considered themselves as a superior race and treated the original people here in India as inferior. A study was conducted to trace Aryan lineage in India. It was found that among South Indians, only Brahmins (upper caste) show Aryan blood. It clearly indicates that Caste systems had initially originated because invasion. We all know that Aryans are Europeans. The same has happened with every nation. When a more civilized (read as knowledgeable) people moved to other places where people had limited opportunities to acquire knowledge, the first dominated the latter. If we take the history of America or Australia, we find that the dominant people living there are not the original people of the land. This must have happened with India long ago by the arrival of Aryans or some other people. I clearly understand that it is very difficult to trace the routes of invasion. History is always the story of the winner and not of the loser. And things are presented as facts in history may not be hundred percent true.
I don’t believe in caste system. I cannot consider a person as superior or inferior to me. We didn’t know from where we came. When we were in oblivion (before our birth), we didn’t exist. We do not know where we will be going as nobody has returned to tell us what after death is (In my religion’s point of view, it is a little different as Christ is risen. But my point of argument is not that.). So, why to fight among ourselves. We all have the same chromosomes, similar factors in blood other than blood group. We all have happiness and pain. The sun shines on everybody. For God, everyone is equal, just mortal creatures. It is our arrogance that make us tell that we are superior over others.
Bincy said
More study is required to confirm my findings. Whatever it is, caste system should be eliminated.
Caste system: In the shadow of shame! « Turning the wheel… said
[…] to my previous post “How about ‘getting rid of the caste system?”, I have stated that we must realize that change is possible, and thus work to bring about […]
mgh said
Only education , rational thinking and automation of low end jobs will help eradicate casteism.
http://myghosthut.blogspot.in/2012/04/quota-unquota.html